I AM the evil female...super long post

[RainGirl]

I feel like I am walking into a den of lions at the moment, but I need help looking at things from a different perspective.  I do not expect to get a lot of sympathy here for my opinions, and yes, I do anticipate the attacks, but here I am.  First things first, my kids are my life.  Right now, I have a young daughter and I do not want her father to be a part of her life.  I can logic this out but when it comes right down to it, I do not feel 100% comfortable with my decision.  That is why I am here.  This post be long as I present my side of things, but if you hang to the end, I'd like to get a dad's opinion on things as well.

I currently have three children.  Two boys who are in school, and a 6 month old daughter.  My boys are from a previous relationship and are being raised with zero father contact.  (Don't attack me on this one...deadbeat dad scene-not my decision.)  My daughter is the result of a 3 year relationship that ended about a year ago.  Her dad wants to be a part of her life but I do not want him to have any contact with her.  
I was never married to her father and we never lived together, although we talked about both.  He is financially responsible, holds a high-paying steady job, does not do drugs, drinks only socially, has nice vehicles, has no criminal record, etc.  Looks great on paper.

There was a lot of abuse.  NEVER physical abuse.  He never lifted a hand to me and I want to make that clear.  However, he was very emotionally abusive.  I realize most people might think that is pettybut never in my life have I been so hurt by a single person.  I walked into the relationship a strong, proud, independent individual.  Held my head up high and was ready to take on the world.  My mottos were "Failure is not an option" and "adapt and overcome".  I lived both well.  A little over two years later, I was extremely self-conscious, isolated from friends and family, afraid to look at people, walked on eggshells, lived in constant fear of upsetting him, hated the person I had become, felt worthless, and was suicidal.

I hate fighting and avoid conflict whenever possible.  Looking back I do not understand how things went so far and can only say it did not happen overnight.  The abusive acts would come and come and come until I could no longer take it yet as soon as I would turn to leave, he would pull me back, say the things I most needed to hear, promise to change, etc.  I was treated either like a princess or a crack whore.  Little in between.

In general, things like being publicly humiliated, called a bitch, a whore, a slut, and a hooker constantly despite repeated requests not to be, I was not allowed to associate with any of my friends, was severely scolded if I talked to classmates (even in class and about school work), was expected to maintain EXTREMELY strict obedience, was manipulated into dependence, was not allowed to go to certain places without permission, was not allowed to speak my opinion on certain matters but was forced to repeat his despite the fact that we both knew I felt differently, etc.  The list goes on and on.  Truly cruel and hateful acts.  If I could have simply behaved in a certain way and not upset him, I would have, but the things that upset him were so unpredictable that it was impossible.  One night I was screamed at for an hour and a half because I went to get a glass of water.  

As far as places I was not allowed to go...it wasn't just bars or anything like that.  One day I got out of class early and wanted to take my boys to the park.  I called to see if he would be done at work soon and wanted to go with us.  In the end, I gave up fighting and stayed home with the boys.  His argument...he was at work and not having fun therefore it was not fair for me to.  And since his daughter was with her mother and I wasn't taking her either, it wasn't fair for my boys to be able to go.  

Another time we were all at a play area and he began pulling his daughter away from me telling her not to talk to strangers and eventually told me it was because he didn't want her associating with someone dressed like a slut.  This was said right in front of my boys.  I was literally wearing a nice pair of jeans and a slightly baggy, long sleeved, mens (therefore not low cut) tee shirt that came down to about mid-thigh.  It was because my shirt was not tucked in.

To this day, the only explanation I have gotten was that I was "too perfect" and he was afraid of losing me, therefore pushed me away.  Yet this happened on a daily basis for years.

As far as I could tell, I was the only person he behaved this way to, never the kids.  However, he was wonderful at making promises and coming across as a great guy but rarely made good on them.  That did affect the kids.  I think he intended to keep them but as soon as something fun came along, he was off in that direction, sometimes with, but often without explanation to the person he had made the promise to.  This happened to the kids, both mine and his.  He was supposed to have weekends with his daughter, but one weekend said he was not going to get her because he had too much to do.  Yet he took my truck and returned six hours later with his golf clubs in the back (he had gone out all day to play).  Times when he would do this, he never bothered to call or tell her mom that he had a change in plans.  One night, he came over late and I told him I wanted to take my boys fishing in the morning.  He decided that he and his daughter should go as well and since it was the weekend showed up at her house just before midnight to pick her up (once again, no call that day).  When her grandmother protested that she was sleeping and just getting over a cold and it wasn't wise to drag her out in the night, he took her anyway.  He arrived back at my house griping about how it was Saturday and his time...how dare they try to deny him rights to HIS daughter.  Yet she seemed to be his daughter when he cared to think about her and a thing to be forgotten when it wasn't convenient.

He had volunteered to help my son with his science fair project (a HUGE part of their grade).  Said it would be a good chance for them to bond.  Yet after being reminded repeatedly for two months, the due date was approaching and still no project.  Yet he always had something more important.  I knew better than to try to do one with my son as I would be "robbing them of their bonding time" and "trying to make him look bad in front of my son".  Finally at 6PM the night before it was due, I dropped my son off with my dad and asked him to help.  Things like this were constant.

As far as co-parenting, I saw him repeatedly do things that worked against his daughter's mother.  Little things, like the time she was three and he was so proud of himself for teaching her to say "James is stupid" when asked what we thought of her mom's boyfriend.  When she was five, he took her out and had her ears pierced despite her mom saying she really didn't want them pierced until she was older.  Little things, but not cool.

So, now I am over and done with the relationship.  He does have some wonderful qualities and I am sure that he will make the right woman very happy.  I just wasn't that woman.  I was hurt deeply and now am faced with having to trust a hideous monster with the most innocent and precious being in my life.  One that seems to hold that women are meant to be subservient and obey strictly.  One that makes and breaks promises, uses children as pawns, and selfishly thinks of himself first and others only when it is convenient.  That is NOT the kind of role model I want for my daughter.  It pains me to be around him, opens old wounds and I need the time and space to heal.

We spent the second half of my pregnancy without contact and it was only after she was born that I called to tell him.  I had severe reservations about it but felt obligated to do so.  He saw her about every 2-3 weeks for about an hour at a time until she was 4 months (so maybe 8 times total).  At that point, he began with some of his old head games and I kind of lost it.  I was so scared and upset and it ripped any bit of healing I had done wide open.  Why now, after all this time was he still trying to control and manipulate me?  Why did he feel it necessary?  What was he trying to do?  What did he have to gain?  I freaked.  I told him that I didn't think it was wise and I couldn't handle the contact with him.  He asked what about seeing the baby.  I told him I couldn't handle it.  He asked what about doing what was best for her.  I told him that I did feel this was best for her.  I got in my truck and drove off.

Knowing what I did of him, I honestly expected there to be an email or message by the time I got home, but there was nothing.  I have made no attempt to contact over the past 2 months and to the best of my knowledge, neither has he.

I am now two years off from completing my degree.  It has been no secret that I have been planning on leaving the state for years.  I tried to do so before, but felt it would be wise to finish school first.  Poverty is a major issue and our city was ranked as one of the top 12 for violent crimes.  My state's schools consistently rank either 49th or 50th in the nation.  Jobs pay far less than the national average.  Unemployment is high and all around, it is not a good place to live or to raise kids.  I have family in Iowa where some of the best schools are.  I had planned on moving either there and raising my kids where they could thrive.  Yet when I move, my daughter will only be two or three.  If he has partial custody of her, would that mean sending her out for summers?  I can't believe that would be good for such a young child to be ripped away from Mom and sent to a stranger (after so long with no contact, it would be as good as a stranger to such a young one) for months at a time.  I can't imagine being away from my kids for so long and the thought of him having my precious little one for that long terrifies me.  What kind of damage can be done in that amount of time?

Yet part of me argues that all that happened was between he and I.  He has never hurt her and to dictate her life based on my emotions is not completely right either.  If he hurt her, then I would have right to step in and keep him away, but until then, do I have the right?  The mother in me counters this with the fact that you do not let your child play with a gun hoping that it is not loaded and if it does go off and proves to be loaded, then you can take it away.

Is it fair to tear her between two lives, two families, two states?  If not, then what is the purpose of allowing either one of them to bond now, only to have to suffer a loss when I move?  He couldn't possibly have much attachment to her yet.  He wasn't there during the pregnancy or birth.  He has only seen her a handful of times.  I haven't allowed him to pay anything for her although to his credit, he has offered.  Does a bit of shared genetic material really make for an obligation to let him be part of her life?

I still can't imagine being away from my children for weeks or even months at a time.  It's inconceivable.  Yet if we shared custody and lived in different states, I don't see how we'd avoid that.  My only other option would be to remain in the state and to do that would mean to subject all three of my children to a life of poor schools, high crime, and financial insecurity.  Is that really in their best interests either?

But what of his rights?  He claims that he wants to know her.  Doesn't he have the right to?  Yet how can I put his wants above what I feel is best for her?  And while he has done exactly what I asked of him, no contact...I still find that a bit unsettling.  That he could walk away so easily with so little argument...no phone calls or even an email.  Nothing.  (Then again, he may have decided to skip negotiations and has spent the last two months mounting a legal offense because he is so committed.)

My gut reaction is to leave well enough alone, don't stir things up.  Put my head down, finish my degree, and get my kids out of the state.  I have a wonderful support system and extended family in Iowa and the kids will have plenty of loving male role models there.  Just walk away now before anyone gets hurt.

Yet something still does not sit quite well.  Do I really have the RIGHT to make that kind of call for all involved?

[Peanutsdad]

If you are questioning it, you already know the answers.



My granddad once told me; Boy, often times, the most morally right thing to do, is that which you most dont want to.

[Brent]

>I feel like I am walking into a den of lions at the moment,
>but I need help looking at things from a different
>perspective.

Welcome. You'll find that most people here are fair, reasonable people who want what's best for their children. And you aren't quite in the lion's den that you might think- more than half the people here are women. :)

> I do not expect to get a lot of sympathy here
>for my opinions, and yes, I do anticipate the attacks, but
>here I am.  

For the most part, the only times I've seen people attacked here are when they put themselves before their kids, or when they decide the other parent has no place or value in the children's lives. Rarely is that view truly justified.

Emotional abuse is often a two-way street, but not always. I will say that rarely is one party an angel and the other a devil; it usually takes two to tango. Yes, there are spouses from hell, but more often than not there's enough blame to go around so that everyone gets a plateful. ;)

Regardless, your feelings for each other shouldn't interfere with the children's relationship with the other parent. That's easier said than done, unfortunately, because we're all human.


>Yet something still does not sit quite well.  Do I really have
>the RIGHT to make that kind of call for all involved?

You have a responsibility to 3 parties: you, your child, and your child's other parent. As a CP, it's incumbent upon you to be the flexible one since you have most of the control over the situation. Treat the other parent as you would want to be treated and you'll never have to question if you did the right thing or if you were fair about something.

[hisliltulip]

Hmmm, this sounds familiar.

You and I have some parallels, not exactly the same, but I'll let you know my story (while trying to keep it short).

My ex was very controlling also, pulled many of the same things yours did, and then some.  There was some physical abuse on his part, but nothing major (nothing that needed medical attention).

I found out shortly after our son's birth that Ex has bi-polar disorder with psychotic overtones (which basically means he has schizophrenic tendencies on top of the bi-polar).  Now, in no way am I saying that your ex has this, I am just letting you know my story.

I struggled for a long time about letting ex have a part in ds's life.  It was extremely difficult.  On the one hand, I wanted him completely out of our lives forever, and was getting a lot of feedback from family to do so.  And since his medical records could have been PROOF of his behavior, I had a pretty fair shot of shutting him out.

BUT, I got to thinking of all of my friends I had while growing up who didn't know their Dads.  These kids were constantly pissed off and in trouble.  Pissed off with their Mom's for not letting them know their Dad's, or pissed off that their Dad's left (and sometimes BOTH).

I had visions of ds turning on me at age 14, 15, 16, saying "Where's my Dad, I want to know my Dad, Why did you keep him away from me?"  This I did not want.

So, DS sees his Dad once a month, or more, for a weekend, sometimes for longer periods.  In the beginning it was once every three months, for a week, but that is because Ex moved out of state before son was six months old, and we couldn't afford plane tickets more than that.  Once DS and I moved closer, the visitation became more frequent.

Yup, I can't stand my ex.  He still plays head games with me, and sometimes plays them with son, but the games he plays with son are designed to hurt ME most of the time, not DS.

But you know what?  DS loves his Daddy, the connection has always been there.  Even when he was an infant.  Babies KNOW who their parent's are.

DS is now nearly six and he and his Dad have a good relationship.

So, here's my advice to you.

Let your ex spend time with your daughter.  Make up a parenting plan that you feel comfortable with for now, moving up to more time as your daughter grows.

If you move out of state, know that your daughter will be gone from you for extended periods, just as she will be away from him.

I make less now than I did where DS and I lived his first three years, but he gets to see his Dad more (and extended family) which is important to me.  It's easier on son to see his Dad more frequently too.  The transition is much easier.

And a heads-up, to get away from the problem of him showing up at midnight for her as he has done with his other daughter, be very specific in the parenting plan.  Pick-up, drop-off times, if he is more than an hour late, he forfeits the visitation.  Think of Holidays...

Good luck.:)

[Kitty C.]

You could almost be telling my story.........

DS was born in CA over 15 years ago.  His dad was still legally married at the time, so he had an instant SM when he was born.  Things had periodically been rocky prior to his birth, but went downhill fast after that.  His dad was an alcoholic, but a charmer as well.  No one knew of the emotional and verbal abuse that man put me thru.

I was born and raised in Iowa, smack in the middle of Amish country, a true Iowa farmer's daughter.  During our custody dispute, he went so far as to make the allegation that there were SEVERE problems in my family when I was young and my parents sent me to live with Amish neighbors.  If anyone knows anything about the Amish faith, they would know that this is an outright lie, they would never do such a thing.  This is just the tip of the iceberg, as he also called me a whore, saying I was selling myself out of a local bar.  He reported me for abuse 4 times, 3 out in CA, where I was literally put on 'probation' for 6 months and had to report to a social worker every month.  He did everything he could to protray me as an unfit mother.

I also knew that there was NO way I could ever afford to live out there, even with guideline child support.  And it scared me to death to think of DS going to school out there, knowing how good the schools are in Iowa.  We did get back together and I convinced his dad to move to Iowa in 1993.  We got here in March, and at the beginning of August, one day while I was at work (he never did get a job here, even with 2 degrees), he took off with DS back to CA.  For 4 days I had NO clue where DS was.  Many aspects of that time I have no recollection of, it was so traumatic.  

It took me 6 weeks, 3 trips to CA, 3 court appearances, and 1 emergency mediation to get DS back here.  Basically his dad screwed himself with the court by that action. One year later, we solidified a perm. custody order.  By then, DS was 5.

But when we moved back here to Iowa, it was the first time I had come back without my father being here, he had died in 1991.  I still worship the ground he walked on.  I ended up going thru the grieving process all over again.  And I also came to realize just how precious a father is to a child's life.  I may have hated DS's dad for what he did to me, but it was obvious that DS loved him dearly, as it should be.  Far be it for me to come between that.

Per CO, DS flew out to CA every summer and EO Christmas.  The summer visitation started at 4 weeks and graduated every two weeks until it was one week after school was out to one week before school started.  ALL SUMMER, EVERY YEAR.  I will not deny that I missed him HORRIBLY.  I would stand there in the terminal, watch his plane take off, and bawl my head off.  But the phone calls kept us in touch and I could hear in the sound of DS's voice that this was the right thing to do.  And we always had a game we played when he'd fly home, him making me a bowling pin as he barreled into me when he got off the plane!

Over the years, I guess time and distance, things changed between his dad and I.  I kept him notified on EVERYTHING, encouraged him to contact DS's teachers, and talked to him frequently.  When DS was diagnosed with ADHD 8 years ago, he was informed every step of the way and it was a JOINT decision between the two of us as to how we would deal with it.  I got to relying on his feedback.  But the real shocker was the day he called and during the course of the conversation, he actually came out and told me he thought I was doing a great job as a mother!  Talk about doing a 180!  After that, our relationship was even more cordial that it had been getting.

But 2 years ago, EVERYTHING changed.  DS was scheduled to fly out for the summer, but his dad was having some problems and thought he'd be having his gall bladder out shortly after DS would arrive.  Didn't turn out that way.  On June 28, he was diagnosed with bile duct cancer of the liver, and on July 23 he passed away, while DS was there.   I dropped everything, scrambled to get the funds and work out logistics, and flew out there to be with DS.  It was devastating to everyone, but moreso to DS.

A few months later, I asked DS what it would have been like if his dad would have died while he was with me and he said 'Oh Mom, it would have been HORRIBLE!'  He will never forget that he got to say goodbye to his dad.  Then I asked him if he ever had to do it all over again, would he want to stay here, to play ball, go camping, and all the other fun things that his friends were doing over they summer, or go to his dad's, and he said 'No question, Mom, I'd go to Dad's'.  I think that says it all.

DS never got to play T-Ball or Little League, never got to go to Scout camp, never got regular swim lessons, never got to do a LOT of things many kids do over the summer.  For 10 years, I never spent my birthday, 4th of July, or spend time with my son during the summer.  But NONE of that matters anymore.  My son no longer has a father he can see or be with.  That's all that matters.

Plus DS is lucky to have a SM whom he still adores and it would make me proud if he wanted to call her Mom.  He couldn't say 'Step-mama' when he started talking, so it came out 'Epmama', and that's what he still calls her!  He didn't go out to see her, or his half sister and other relatives, this summer because of summer school, but he WILL be going out next year.  I won't let him forget his father's family and have every intention of inviting them all to his HS graduation in 3 years.  I hope to honor his SM by having her sit with us in the parents section during the ceremony.  She deserves it.  And in my mind, she IS just as much a parent to DS as I am.

Now, I know that everyone's situation is different.  But I ask you to take a look at your own relationship with your father.  If it was good, don't you want that for your children?  And if it wasn't, don't you want them to have what you didn't?  Yes, she's very young right now, and they may not have much of a bond, but that takes TIME, it's not something that happens instantly.  Because of the age of the child, she won't be able to fly by herself until she's 5 anyway, so you will need to make some kind of arrangements for LD visitation until then.  

And yes, she CAN fly by herself.  There's thousands of kids who do it every year.  And the airlines are great at taking care of them, thru their UAM (Unaccompanied Minor) programs.  It costs a little more, but it's worth it.  It is mandatory to the age of 12 and is optional after that.  Children from 5 to 8 must fly non-stop, but after that they can have one plane change.

It doesn't change the fact that you will miss her horribly.  But how will they ever be able to have any kind of bond if you don't do whatever you can to foster it?  I saw firsthand how DS's dad charmed and weaseled people, including me.  DS learned himself on a MUCH smaller scale, but that was for HIM to learn from his own experience, NOT mine projected on him.  But now DS has a deep love for his father and many great memories to remember.  I even let them take a trip to Winnepeg, MB about 5 years ago, so DS could see where his dad grew up and meet some relative he'd never seen before.  It scared me to death to agree to the trip.  But I also realized that they may never get another chance to do that, and family is VERY important to me.  Little did I know how prophetic my thinking would be.

I know it's very hard, but your daughter is starting out with a clean slate with her father.  It was one of the hardest things I had ever done to put MY feelings about him aside for the sake of our son.  Note that I said 'our', not 'my'.  I have never thought of him as 'my' son, because he wasn't brought into this world by immaculate conception, he is equally of his father, hence he is not mine alone.

I had NO familial support in CA, another reason why I wanted to move back here.  Even DS's dad told me at one point that, in regards to the environment he was growing up in, the education he was getting here, and the additional academic help with his ADHD, this was the best place for DS to be.  I can understand your desire to return to Iowa.  All I'm saying is, regardless of the relationship you had with her father, your daughter deserves to get to know and love her father.  Everything and anything you can do to make that happen can only be good for her.  It is up to her and her father as to where their relationship will lead.  

Even DS knows that his dad wasn't a saint, just as he knows I'm not one either, LOL!  But I have NO doubt that he loves each of us fiercely, just as much as I love my father.  Your daughter is half of her father, please don't deny her that.  Make the sacrifices you have to for her sake.  Parenting is nothing but sacrifice, just in varying degrees.  Of all the trips I had to make to Chicago O'Hare (1000 miles every time he went to CA), the days missed from work because bad weather delayed a flight, taking DS out of school a day early for Christmas so that his dad could get a better priced fare, and all the other 'problems' that arose..........I'd do it again in a heartbeat, if it meant DS could have his Daddy in his life.

More than once, I had many people ask me 'How can you put your child on a plane to fly so far for so long?'  And I asked them in return 'Since he's with his father, how can I NOT???'

[Bolivar OH]

There are three sides to every relationship disagreement
   1.His side
   2.Her side
   3.The truth

Children love both parents unconditionally.  Children need both parents.  You will be hurting your child if she is not given a chance to develop a relationship with her father.

[wendl]

I totally understand about being with a controlling man. When I was younger (to young) I was engaged to a man who would not allow me to talk to my friends, family and when I got home from work  he questions which men I talked to. Luckily I didn't stay in that relationship long, as soon as I could get out I did.

That being said, even though he may be this way towards you, he may not be this way towards your child.

If/when you two have a court ordered parenting plan, specify in the order that pick up time is at xx and the receiving parent will wait no longer than 30 minutes, if that parent fails to show (without making prior agrangements agreed upon by both parties) then visited is considered forfitted at during this weekend (something like that)

Each child deserves to see both parents.  Should you ex choose not to exercise his visitation that is his loss, if he fails to exercise it for a long period of time, then request supervised visits until the child and father reunite.

Since you were not married at the time of birth, the father must go to court to get his vistation rights.

Good luck, and always remember do what is right for the child, many of us can't stand our ex's however we chose them not our children.

There are many deadbeat parents out there believe me, my ex is one of them, he made the choice not to see our son or pay child support, now he wonders why our son will not call him, hmmm.

Now my dh on the other hand is a wonderful father to his children and my son.




**These are my opinions, they are not legal advice**

[RainGirl]

>If you are questioning it, you already know the answers.


I wish I could share your conviction, but unfortunately, I can't see life in such black and white.  Not all situations can result in win/win and so long as that is the case, no solution will ever be 100% right.  Your comment did at least bring me to that realization and if nothing else, I am now more comfortable living with it if that is what I choose to do.  He has said that he wants to see her and I have always been the type of person who tries at all costs to make others happy.  I have never disregarded the thoughts of others easily.  All things considered, I don't believe that the situation would be a positive one for a young child.  Yet as  much as I detest him, I still care about him and his feelings as odd as that may sound.  I think my unrest is because it does not sit well that I am not honoring his "rights".  However, to put his wants above what is best for her would be negligent in my responsibilities as a mother.  So while it may not feel 100% right, this may eventually come to picking the lesser of evils.

[RainGirl]

>Emotional abuse is often a two-way street, but not always. I
>will say that rarely is one party an angel and the other a
>devil; it usually takes two to tango. Yes, there are spouses
>from hell, but more often than not there's enough blame to go
>around so that everyone gets a plateful. ;)

I do realize that I hold a biased view, but I was raised by Norwegian corn farmers...very quiet, passive people.  I tend to play peace-keeper and deal with things rather than object and enter into conflict.  As such, yes, I did ALLOW many of these things to happen by tolerating them and not stopping them immediately, but I can HONESTLY not remember ever lashing out (either directly or passively) for at least the first 2+ years.  The last three months we were together, I did say things that I now regret, but that was the final straw that caused me to leave for good.  It was when I saw that I was becoming a witch that I realized I had allowed myself to change and I was becoming a person I was not and could not be proud of.

>Regardless, your feelings for each other shouldn't interfere
>with the children's relationship with the other parent. That's
>easier said than done, unfortunately, because we're all human.

Far too true.  Which is why I am here...to try to gain perspectives from a father's side of things.  Single parent boards got me nowhere, as the vast majority of them were mothers who told me what scum men were and that kids were fine without dads.  

Emotions aside...parents aside....  Just considering the physical situation, I do not see how being split between two states and lives can be healthy for such a young child.  Maybe an older one, but not so young.  As I said, I never saw him act abusively to anyone other than me so I'm not convinced that it would carry over onto her.  However, the values that he carries are what scare me.  His views on gender roles, materialism, etc. are things I would never care to have passed along to any child, let alone mine.  Combine that with the inconsistancy and broken promises (which repeatedly affected the kids)....  I wish that I could see good coming from a potential relationship, but I'm having trouble with that.

If they currently had a relationship, there might be reason to keep him involved.  I wouldn't want to tear her away (hurting her) to prevent her from getting hurt.  Makes no sense.  But at this time she has no attachment.  Just a bit of shared genetic material.  I cannot justify placing her into a situation that I see as being harmful with a person I see as being maybe/maybe not harmful just because he wants that.  If the day came that she wanted to know him, I would never deny her that, but right now she is innocent and it is my job to protect her.  I know that she is well loved within my family.  She will have all of her social, emotional, material, etc. needs met.  Why introduce a potentially unstable situation/element into the picture...because he wants?  Because they share genes?  I am having a lot of trouble with that concept.  I promise I'm not intentionally being argumentative, I'm just trying to understand the other side and from where I am, it is difficult to see.

[RainGirl]

>BUT, I got to thinking of all of my friends I had while
>growing up who didn't know their Dads.  These kids were
>constantly pissed off and in trouble.  Pissed off with their
>Mom's for not letting them know their Dad's, or pissed off
>that their Dad's left (and sometimes BOTH).

My best friend of 16 years was raised not knowing her father.  In fact, she was raised by a man who she was always told was her dad.  Her real father died when she was 13 and she wasn't told until she was 17 that he even existed.  At that point, she was shaken that what she had always believed was not a reality, but she has always said that she will always consider her dad (the one that raised her) to be her dad.  She says she wishes she could have met her other dad, but does not regret the decisions that her parents made.  Just wishes she had known the truth sooner.

>I had visions of ds turning on me at age 14, 15, 16, saying
>"Where's my Dad, I want to know my Dad, Why did you keep him
>away from me?"  This I did not want.

I think if this day ever came, I would not deny her that.  It would be her choice and she would be old enough to understand things more fully and old enough to be able to handle trips across the country and time away from her family better.  It is subjecting her at this age to that that causes me concern.

>But you know what?  DS loves his Daddy, the connection has
>always been there.  Even when he was an infant.  Babies KNOW
>who their parent's are.

I believe they know who their caregivers are...be they biological or adoptive...but do you mean they know who they have biological ties to and who they do not?

>If you move out of state, know that your daughter will be gone
>from you for extended periods, just as she will be away from
>him.

While it can be done, is this HEALTHY for a young child?  Right now she has no attachment to him.  To begin a relationship would be to introduce her to a life of constantly being away from at least one parent or the other.  This is what I am not convinced is wise.

>And a heads-up, to get away from the problem of him showing up
>at midnight for her as he has done with his other daughter, be
>very specific in the parenting plan.  Pick-up, drop-off times,
>if he is more than an hour late, he forfeits the visitation.
>Think of Holidays...

This I believe to be a wise decision if we decide to venture down that road.  Keeping it all clear and set makes for a predictable understanding and arrangment for all.