I AM the evil female...super long post

[RainGirl]

>Because they
>DO 'share genes', it is vital that they be allowed to develop
>a relationship.

This is exactly the point I am trying to hit upon.  Why do genes make this vital?  That point exactly is what I keep seeking out the reason for and I continue to fail to find.

[janM]

Like most CP moms, you probably have a new man in your life who wants to play daddy and replace her real dad.

[Peanutsdad]

Since genetics do not matter in your view,, why keep her yourself? Obviously,  she needs no bond with you as a mother. Isn't that the "logic" you are using? Why not let two adults have her and form the nuclear family?


You see,, your own arguements can be used against you.  Who is to say that you are not a monster for denying this child her own heritage? So, with that premise,, perhaps she needs to be with a loving couple. Especially since genetically, parentage doesnt matter in your view.

You complain about him being controlling,,,, who's controlling now?

[RainGirl]

>Like most CP moms, you probably have a new man in your life
>who wants to play daddy and replace her real dad.

No, no man in my life and no desire to add a new one to the mix at the moment.  I've got my plate full at the moment and enough things to concentrate on other than relationships of that nature.  Not to mention she's only six months old.  I don't think in the given amount of time I would have been able to form a relationship I was certain enough of to invite another man to play that role.

[wendl]

Every child has a RIGHT to know BOTH parents regardless.

Living across the country is NOT a bad thing, it gives a child a chance to know BOTH parents and there relatives.  Even when you live in the same state, street whatever as the ex, there will ALWAYS be different rules, different families etc, so its not different.

The child will decide later in life it the other parent is a dead beat in there eyes, many kids have parents in jail BUT they love them anyways, we ALL have our faults and we should not punish children because what we believe the other parent is or may be.

It is important for a child to know BOTH parents, SO lets see if you are not going to allow dad in the picture are you going to request Child Support??????

Like I said my ex is a dead beat HOWEVER my son loves him because he is his dad, but he is lucky to have my dh to do the things his dad doesn't do with him.

I could've very easily never let my ex know he was the father of my child, but I felt that my child had a right to know, also what happens should you child become very ill, how would you know the medical background of dad and his family, what if dad was the only match as a donor for an organ or something. I suggest you think long and hard because later in life your child WILL find out and be soooo mad at you for not letting him know his father.

Why not suggest counseling for you both and anger management and parenting classes. So it can help you to figure out what is best for this child.


**These are my opinions, they are not legal advice**

[RainGirl]

>Since genetics do not matter in your view,, why keep her
>yourself? Obviously,  she needs no bond with you as a mother.
>Isn't that the "logic" you are using? Why not let two adults
>have her and form the nuclear family?

At this point, bonds already exist, which is something I have said does not currently exist between them.  Something I have said that if they did, I would see it as reason to maintain.  There is more between my daughter and I than a genetic link.  And if I thought that I was not able to provide my daughter with a loving and nurturing environment in which she could thrive, I would consider adoption.


>You see,, your own arguements can be used against you.  Who is
>to say that you are not a monster for denying this child her
>own heritage? So, with that premise,, perhaps she needs to be
>with a loving couple. Especially since genetically, parentage
>doesnt matter in your view.
>
>You complain about him being controlling,,,, who's controlling
>now?

I see a tremendous difference between controlling an adult and controlling the environment and situations our children are in.  Would you claim that I was controlling and unreasonable if I was to pull her back from running into the street or for not allowing her to drink Coke right before bed?

[Peanutsdad]

>
>I see a tremendous difference between controlling an adult and
>controlling the environment and situations our children are
>in.  Would you claim that I was controlling and unreasonable
>if I was to pull her back from running into the street or for
>not allowing her to drink Coke right before bed?



Thats the rub rain,, you dont see what you are contemplating as bad,, yet it is every bit as bad as him controlling you. You denying a child her parent, and a parent their child.

[RainGirl]

>Okay, so you're the evil female - now I'm going to be the
>evil male.

Thank you.  I welcome your input as I am trying to find the reasoning behind the other side of the argument.

>Now if you're going to disagree, please don't insult
>everyone's intelligence with the convenient response of,
>"That's just not true!" I actually have a better idea. Show
>this site to the father you threw under the bus, show him your
>post, and give him an opportunity to tell his side of the
>story.
>
>To quote an oft used phrase from our youth . . . I double dare
>you.


It was stated in one of the first posts that abuse is rarely one sided and I briefly considered doing just this but decided against it for two reasons:

1.  I see little point as this would be no more proof than my word to you.  I could just as easily log on under a different user name and respond claiming to be him.  

2.  To be brutally honest, I see this site as being a threat.  If I do decide to take that course of action, he is already significantly advantaged both legally and financially.  I don't need to point him in the direction of a wonderful group of people who have proven to be both well versed in the matters and very open and willing to help.  I may not like what you all have to say, but I do appreciate the overwhelming response I have received here.  No, I do not find this second reason to be "playing fair" or cool, but would you so willingly point your ex in the direction of amazing legal assistance when facing a divorce?  As I said, brutally honest.

>
>More importantly, I find it interesting (disgusting is
>probably more apropos) that the pervasive mentality among
>women is that you, and you alone, have been blessed with the
>divine power to facilitate, or deny, a relationship between
>the children and their father. This is very evident in not
>only your initial post, but in many of the responses you
>received.
>
>So I'm asking you: Where do you get off placing yourself in a
>superior hierarchical position of parenthood than him? Do
>think that because you went through the birthing process that
>that in some way entitles you to dictate when, or if, the
>father can see his kids? Are we to buy into the nonsensical
>theory that because you and he could not get along that he
>doesn't love his children and should be excommunicated from
>their lives?

I have laid down my life for my children.  I have made sacrifices far beyond those made by many.  He has chosen to avoid participating in several events that he was invited to.  Yes, nature did provide me the responsiblility for the brunt of her care for the first nine months, but beyond that her care and well being have fallen to me.  (I will not list the physical, emotional, social, or financial sacrifices I have made in this respect as this was something dictated by nature and therefore, not his or my doing.)  Yet the sacrifices have extended beyond those nine months.  Do not get me wrong, I do this willingly and without complaint.  I simply state this because time after time, I have been the one who took responsibility.  Not him.  This was something that even when we were on at least decent speaking terms he never once disputed or offered an alternative to.  He was perfectly willing to give me that responsibility and authority without question.  His offer of assistance has been limited to financial which I chose to refuse.  

>
>By whom? You? If so, you must have quite a favorable opinion
>of yourself. But why not, the courts certainly have.
>
>Here's a thought to hopefully distract you while you're
>plotting to ruin his life: Maybe you're the reason the
>relationship didn't work. Maybe you're unfit to ever be in a
>relationship of any longevity. And maybe, just maybe, you're
>an absolute bitch who looks in the mirror and sees someone who
>is invisible to everyone around you.

While I resent the implication that I am trying to ruin his life, I can understand why you may get that impression.  If I could make my decisions and live out my life without harming him, I would.  Unfortunately, that does not seem to be possible as even a compromise at this point is bound to leave both of us wanting.  Hurting him is not my goal.  Spite has never been a coat that I wear well.

And if I am a bitch, then so be it.  But at the very least, I am a bitch who loves my children unconditionally and seeks to do the best for them.  If I am wrong in my conclusions in what is in their best interests, then I am wrong.  But if I am convinced that something is right for my children (regardless of the correctness of this conclusion), I would be wrong to take any other course of action.  It is also my responsibility to consider matters and not come to these conclusions lightly, but in the end, whatever I honestly believe to be best for them is what I am obligated to do.

>
>I was married for a number of years and I can tell you for
>sure that the last five years of that marriage I hated the
>sight of her.  I have my reasons, and I also accept partial
>blame, but I can tell you without hesitation that it never
>affected how I was as a father to my two children.
>

I have no doubt that if given the opportunity, he would love her and also try his best to be a good father.  I think that he did that with his daughter as well, but was shortsighted and inexperienced in his execution of those duties.  Right now, I have many people here that continue to say the same thing, but I have yet to have anyone explain the logic behind it.  Yes, I realize he can potentially be a good father, despite what I may think of him.  Yes, I realize that that was the way he treated ME, not HER.  Yes, I realize that he can potentially love her.  The things that I fail to understand are

How do genetic ties make him an ideal person to participate in her life when time after time, people who claim this have also offered support that genetics are not more important than relationships?

In an ideal situation, should a young child be shipped back and forth across the country between two families and made to bear separation from one family or the other at all times?  Yes, I realize that this is not an ideal world, but I seek to provide my children with as close to that as I can.

And finally, WHY do genetic ties with no other bonds or attachment provide a sole reason to subject a child to the less than ideal life that developing and maintaining a relationship of that nature would require?

>A lot of women claim that they are sympathetic to the abuses
>suffered daily by fathers in this country, but it's nothing
>but empty rhetoric, and will remain as such, until women
>recognize that they are no more important, nor any more fit,
>to be a part of their children's lives than the fathers.
>

I sincerely appreciate your honesty and straight forwardness.  Unfortunately, I think that unless I can find satisfactory answers to the above questions, I will need to abandon my quest for answers in this forum as it seems to only be frustrating myself and the others posting here.

[richiejay]

>How do genetic ties make him an ideal person to participate in
>her life when time after time, people who claim this have also
>offered support that genetics are not more important than
>relationships?
>

Genetic ties do not make ANYONE an ideal person to be anything, but it gives that person the RIGHT to be part of the child they produced.  Were your parents ideal parents?  Probably not, but they were yours.  You don't get to decide who your family is.

>In an ideal situation, should a young child be shipped back
>and forth across the country between two families and made to
>bear separation from one family or the other at all times?
>Yes, I realize that this is not an ideal world, but I seek to
>provide my children with as close to that as I can.

Again, no situation is ideal but I honestly think you are letting your negative feelings toward the child's dad get in the way of sound judgement.  And it sounds like you are trying to rationalize it all by saying "but I'm doing the best for my child"
>
>And finally, WHY do genetic ties with no other bonds or
>attachment provide a sole reason to subject a child to the
>less than ideal life that developing and maintaining a
>relationship of that nature would require?

You are assuming it is less than ideal.  Two parents not together is less than ideal.  Why exacerbate it and completely shut out the other parent.  In my opinion, that makes it less ideal.
>
>>A lot of women claim that they are sympathetic to the abuses
>>suffered daily by fathers in this country, but it's nothing
>>but empty rhetoric, and will remain as such, until women
>>recognize that they are no more important, nor any more fit,
>>to be a part of their children's lives than the fathers.
>>
>
>I sincerely appreciate your honesty and straight forwardness.
>Unfortunately, I think that unless I can find satisfactory
>answers to the above questions, I will need to abandon my
>quest for answers in this forum as it seems to only be
>frustrating myself and the others posting here.

By "satisfactiry answers", do you mean you're not getting the answers you want?  Because that is what it sounds like. You are getting frustrated because people are telling you what you don't want to hear.  A majority of the people here are women...and a majority of the people are telling you something different than what it appears you are going to do.  Are they all wrong? we have all been through situations regarding our children. We are speaking from experience.  We all have the right to protect our children...but we also have the right to be a part of their lives.  

[smtotwo]

O-K  back to the abuse CARD, as it is.   I was also married to an abuser. The whole emotional and physical, broken bones the nine yards.

However, we've been divorced for 18 yrs. and over the years I have come to see that while I could never have beaten him up, I certainly KNEW what buttons to push, and I am also very independent.  So I refused to just lay down and take.

I NEVER kept our 3 children from NEVER!!  At 16 my daughter decided she wanted to move back to the city and live with dad.  I didn't approve but DH andI had been very careful and because of the age of the children when we divorced they had no clue what happened durong that marriage.

Less than a year after moving there she was back home because she and dad had a fight over taking his dog for a walk and he ended up shoving her against a wall and putting his forearm against her throat and his hand over mouth so that his parents wouldn't hear her scream.
This was the first time she had any idea what happened. And I think that even if she did know there are some lessons that must be learned on their own.  His mother found out what happened and said to my daughter  "Like Father, Like Son".   EXPLAINS ALOT!!

Of course this is the same woman who said to me when she found ot why I filed for divorce  "It's a mans perogative to hit his wife"  
I was floored by that attitude.  I was raised in an intact family and had never had any experience with any kind of abuse.

At 23, 20, and 19 the kids have very little to do with him, becaus he tried to tell the kids that no abuse ever happened. But when they did a court check they found several of the police reports and the restraining orders.  He lied and they know it.  

But on the other hand DH's ex refused him for years, even telling his children that he wasn't their father her new husband was their only father.

Please consider that whatever kind of Father he "might" be he is her father.  Kids who don't know their fathers feel like 1/2 of them is missing.They think if my dad is sooo bad that mom didn't want him they I must 1/2 bad for being part of him.

It's not your choice to let him see her or not see her IT IS HER right to see him.  HER RIGHT, NOT YOURS