I AM the evil female...super long post

[rini]

hello

you are asking for a reason to support why should a genetic linc be a basis for allowing visitation and a relationship?

has paternity been established? has the genetic linc that you keep refering to been written in stone?

Why is a genetic linc important.  

pros

studies show that children with 2 involved caring parents do much better than children raised with one parent and one univolved or apathetic parent.

it is her right to have access to both biological parents

it is her right to know her heritage and extended family

it is her choice to univolve herself later if she so chooses.


cons

I dont like him

I dont like how he speaks to me

I dont think it will be good for her

I dont think that her father is important in her life

I dont think that contact with him will add to the quality of her life.

I dont think that shipping her all over the country will be good for her.

I think he might do this and that and this and that.........

Seeing a pattern here yet.

If your life is all about you then personally I think you should have had a little fore thought and perhaps not involved someone else in your life.

When you have a child It is not all about you any more but instead all about them.  If you prefer not to see the bigger picture and require proof that you are being selfish and narrow minded here i am sure when your daughter gets older she will be more than happy to let you know all about it.


I would much rather be able to tell my children that I tried to do what was best for them rather than lie to them and pretend that doing what is best for me is also what is best for them.

I have not heard you express one valid concern about the quality of care that the father provides only recriminations and concerns about your own feelings of unworthiness in his eyes.  

In other words my dear it is all about you and your making up reasons as to why the father should not have contact.  YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU!!!

some men just are not cut out to be partners but your intention of denying contact is not only selfish and bitter i can also almost guarantee the fact that if you continue in this type of thing it will damage your own relationship with your child down the road.  

every one always looks for the easy way out and when i first read your letter i thought it was wonderful that you were so expressive and open telling your story and looking for help in making your decision.

after reading all of your other posts i realized that you are looking for an answer that is already there but you are requiring that proof be handed to you as to why genetics are important and that is just plain silly and simpleminded.  why is a second cousin or a grandparent less important and should you worry about the child establishing a relationship with them too!!!!!!!!!!!  (COME ON).....  what came first the chicken or the egg....

well on this site the child comes first  and if the parent tries then they deserve to be in the childs life..

You need to see someone and work out your emotional problems before they start to play with your childrens minds it is quite apparent that you are quite damaged from your latest relationship.  

I can only hope that your children are taught at school to realize the importance of family because apparently you missed that day in class or had a very stinted family upbringing yourself.  raising the question of genetics as many times as you did i am wondering how you survived your first relationship long enough to have a second child.  I am sure the males in relationships with you feel very important and secure .. gosh they are not even given the rank of sperm donor....

I can only hope that the dad gets online and finds this site and perhaps he will end up with custody after your visitation denials and then what shall you do???   It is happening lots more frequently every day.  VISITATION DENIAL = CUSTODY CHANGE to the parent more likely to facilitate a relationship with the other parent.

We are not talking about your rights here but the rights of your daughter and fortunately for her she has you looking out for her rights ....  I am sure you will inevitibly do what is right for yourself.

rini

[Bolivar OH]

90% of homeless and runaway children are from fatherless homes.
[U.S. D.H.H.S., Bureau of the Census.]


80% of rapists motivated with displaced anger come from fatherless homes.
[Criminal Justice & Behavior, Vol 14, p. 403-26, 1978.]


60% of repeat rapists grew up without fathers.
Raymond A. Knight and Robert A. Prentky, "The Developmental Antecednts of Adult Adaptations of Rapist Sub-Types," Criminal Justice and Behavior, Vol 14, Dec., 1987, p 403-426.


71% of pregnant teenagers lack a father.
[US Dept. of Health & Human Services press release, Friday, March 26, 1999.]


63% of youth suicides are from fatherless homes.
[US D.H.H.S., Bureau of the Census.]


85% of children who exhibit behavioral disorders come from fatherless homes.
[Center for Disease Control.]


90% of adolescent repeat arsonists live with only their mother.
[Wray Herbert, "Dousing the Kindlers," Psychology Today, January, 1985, p.28.]


71% of high school dropouts come from fatherless homes.
[National Principals Association Report on the State of High Schools.]


75% of adolescent patients in chemical abuse canters come from fatherless homes.
[Rainbows for all God`s Children.]


70% of juveniles in state operated institutions have no father.
[US Dept. of Justice, Special Report, Sept. 1988.]


85% of youths in prisons grew up in a fatherless home.
[Fulton Co. Georgia jail populations, Texas Dept. of Corrections, 1992.]


75% of prisoners grew up without a father.
Daniel Amneus, The Garbage Generation, Alhambra, CA: Primrose Press, 1990.


Fatherless boys and girls are: twice as likely to drop out of high school; twice as likely to end up in jail; four times more likely to need help for emotional or behavioral problems.
[US D.H.H.S. news release, March 26, 1999.]


43% of US children live without their father.
[US Department of Census.]


Two years after divorce, 51% of children in sole mother custody homes only see their father once or twice a year, or never.
[Guidubaldi, 1989; Guidubaldi, 1988; Guidubaldi, Perry, & Nastasi, 1987.]


42% of fathers fail to see their children at all after divorce.
[Frank F. Furstenberg, Jr. and Christine Winguist Nord, "Parenting Apart," Journal of Marriage and the Family, vol 47, no. 4, November, 1985.]


90% of father disengagement is caused by obstruction of access by a custodial parent anxious to break the father-child ties.
[Kruk, 1992, cited by Prof. John Guidubaldi in his Minority Report and Policy Recommendations of the US Commission on Child & Family Welfare, US Code Citation: 42 USC 12301, 1996. Same cause identified by Braver, Wolchik, & Sandler, 1985, without incidence values.]
Fatherless Girls
Jonetta Rose Barras is a Washington D.C. columnist. In her 2000 book, Whatever Happened to Daddy's Little Girl?: The Impact of Fatherlessness on Black Women [One World Ballantine], she describes the lasting impact of fatherlessness on her and other women.

"Promiscuous fatherless women are desperately seeking love. Or we are terrified that if we give love, it will not be returned. So we pull away from it, refusing to permit it to enter our houses, our beds, or our hearts. To fill the void that our fathers created, we only make the hole larger and deeper,"

"If it is true that a father helps to develop his daughter's confidence in herself and in her femininity; that he helps her to shape her style and understanding of male-female bonding; and that he introduces her to the external world, plotting navigational courses for her success, then surely it is an indisputable conclusion that the absence of these lessons can produce a severely wounded and disabled woman."

[Jonetta Barras's book is a moving and powerful plea to men to realize their importance to their children. It is a yearning for male acceptance and understanding that only a father can give, and must be there from birth. But the plea from most fathers is, "LET US BE FATHERS." This is not a simple case of "individual responsibility." If society under-values fathers, there is little one single man can do. Society must ask what it is doing to cause these problems. — Ed.]

[Brent]

Well, imagine the roles were reversed, and imagine that this is you that he's talking about:

>Further proof that it is the relationship, not the genes that
>matter.  So if my daughter currently has no attachment and no
>bonds to her, why is it necessary to begin a relationship with
>her and expose her to a less than desirable situation simply
>because they share genes?  If it is possible to create and
>maintain a relationship and bond just as strong to another
>individual in the place where she lives, wouldn't that be
>desirable?

So....if genes don't matter, then technically you don't matter, right?

See where I'm going? Obviously I'm being facetious, but my point is that he's not just anyone, he's her father. He matters to her just like you do. He may not have made a stellar start, but to take the position that you have is, I think, a mistake. The problem with mistakes of this nature is that it may take ten years or more before you come to the realization that what you did wasn't, as it turns out, in the best interests of your daughter.

I hope you are never marginalized in the same way that he is. He has his problems, but he is still the child's father, one of her parents, and that means something. It goes way beyond the fact that they share some genes, in my opinion, and I hope that you can come to see that.

[Kitty C.]

Good God, for the SAME reason that YOU develop a relationship with her!  What difference does it make which parent it is, BOTH are important and vital to a child's life!

[Kitty C.]

'However, if the relationship is not important enough to maintain over state lines, it is better for both of them not to enter into in the
first place.'

Absolutely NOT.  That is NOT for you to say.  Like I said before, whatever relationship they end up having together, that is up to THEM, NOT you.  The key here is to TRY.  Maybe he will want to develop a relationship with his daughter, maybe not.  That is for him to decide, NOT you.  And there is NO way of knowing how or IF it will develop unless you TRY.  Maybe it will start out good but fizzle out, no one has any way of knowing what will happen.

I think you are looking too far into the future and trying to maintain too much control of the situation.  If he chooses to fight for visitation, how can you deny him?  If the situation was reversed, would you want to be denied out of hand, just because he thinks YOU would be a bad influence on her?

Two VERY important things to think about here and neither one of them have to do with genes (personally, I think you're too hung up on that):  Think about how you would feel if the tables were turned and, for the sake of your daughter, TRY something, anything to allow him to start a relationship.  If it doesn't work, it doesn't work.  But there is NO way to predict the future or to have any control over it.

This is the part of taking risks with having children.

[Kitty C.]

'Being shipped back and forth across the country, living between two homes, two families, two lifestyles and living in a situation where one family or the other is constantly missed.'

Then let me ask you this, which is more damaging:  spending a much larger block of time (2 weeks or more), and getting into a more normal rhythm of day-to-day activities....or spending ONLY 48 hours at one house and JUST getting used to it, then being uprooted and go back to another house?  I have seen this with BOTH DS and SS.  And I truly think that DS had the better deal (tho not often enough) by going cross-country to see his dad for the summer than SS does in coming to our house every 2 weeks for 48 hours.  He no more than gets settled in, then he has to leave.  To me, that is MUCH more disruptive.  Best case scenario (especially since he ONLY lives 2 blocks away), is for him to spend either one or two weeks off and on with both parents.  He has two parents who live in two different homes, thus he understands that he has two homes as well.  Chidlren are MUCH more adaptable then many adults give them credit for.

So if what you're saying is that a child should never have two homes or be forced to split time between parents, then one parent should ALWAYS be outcast for good?  I know for a fact that SS LIVES for seeing his father.  His BM would have loved nothing better than to wipe my DH out of SS's life, but DH stood his ground.  He still only has EOW and EO holidays, but the BM has made it so difficult, especially for SS that he's pulling away from her, and he's only 10!  I have every reason to believe that when he turns 18 and leaves her home (if we don't have primary physical by then, since he's been begging for it since he was 7), he's gonna tell her to kiss hiss ass and not look back.  He HATES the way she tries to deny him his father.  And that is WITH a bond being formed!

You keep saying there is no bond formed between them.  Then MAKE it happen!  That is YOUR responsibility as a parent!  It's one step at a time:  allow them to create that bond, let them try to develop a relationship, ease into it gradually, and if at any time thru this process he decides this isn't what he wants with his daughter, then make the appropriate changes.

It is NOT for you to decide whether they bond or have a relationship together, it is ONLY up to them.  But it IS your responsibility to foster it and make it happen if it is meant to happen.  No one will ever know until it is tried.

[jilly]

Why? Why? Why?
Logic Logic Logic
Reasoning Reasoning Reasoning

What are you? A freakin Vulcan?? Jeez woman...how many ways can somebody tell you that it's very important to form, foster and nurture a father/daughter relationship?  No, it's not an ideal situation to have children go back and forth between homes, whether down the street, same state or across the country. To paraphrase a popular saying "You divorce/leave your spouse/significant other. The kids don't divorce/leave their father/mother."

Hopefully, next time you feel the urge to have someone jump back in the gene pool they'll use chlorine.

[Brent]

>Unfortunately, I think that unless I can find satisfactory
>answers to the above questions, I will need to abandon my
>quest for answers in this forum as it seems to only be
>frustrating myself and the others posting here

Usually when people say something like this it means they didn't really want advice, they wanted validation. People here are being very straight with you and speaking from their hearts, but you don't really want to hear what they're telling you.

You either want people to agree with your decision to not include the father in his daughter's life, or you want people here to flame you so you can go away feeling justified that we're all a bunch of a-holes.

I don't think I'll spend much more time going back and forth with you; I honestly think you had your mind made up before you came here and are just looking for someone to tell you that what you're doing is okay. It's not, and to be honest, I feel sorry for your daughter- she's the one that will ultimately be shortchanged by your actions.

[Stepmom0418]

Look let me tell you that I too was abused by my ex. I too thought at one point in time that our 2 girl should not be around there father. Our 2 girls are now 12 and 10 and me having anything to do with keeping them from their father was the worst mistake I ever made. Girls need a their dads as much as if not more than boys do. If you try to interfere in a relationship trust me I know from experience that it will come back to haunt you!! My ex was a terriable husband. He litterally beat me half to death and he was mentally abusive as well. But he never intentially hurt his kids! One incident he did hit the our baby that was in my arms while he was trying to hit me to stop me from leaving with the kids but believe me it was an accident and he never again raised his hand to me while a child was in my arms. The baby thank god was fine not even a bruise but yes at that point I truely did believe that he would hurt his kids. We went through the supervised visit thing and then he was allowed regular visits through the court. Actually now 7 years after our divorce we dont even use the co. He calls and says he wants them and he gets them. It took me alot to realize how much the girls love and need their dad but now that I know the trama I caused I would do anything to change it if I could. I cant change the past but the future is bright and I will do anything in my power to see that the girls maintain a relationship with their dad. In fact he got himself in trouble last year and he is currently in prison. I have taken the girls to see him in prison and they write and talk on the phone. Before he went to prison he had a baby with another woman and I go to all lengths to see that the girls get to see their sister and have a relationship with her as well as with their dad. Look Im not here to judge you but you have to think of the child before yourself. It is really sad to see people keep their kids away from their parents whether male or female. Unless there are real good reasons why and still supervised is an option. My advice is DONT DO IT YOU WILL REGRET IT!!!!!!! It may not be for years but you will!! Good luck on your choices you make

[darkspectre]

As others here have already stated, you had your mind made up (as if it's your decision) long before you ever wasted our time with your "everyboby should feel sorry for poor little me" story.

All I can say is that you represent everything that is wrong with women and their attitudes when it comes to children and fathers, and I hope like hell that through some divine intervention, he find that one-in-a-million judge and hands you your ass in court.

I do agree with you on one thing, though. You may as well go away because no one on this board is going to validate your self-serving, idiotic philosophy of how you "believe" you want things to be versus how they should be.

I really hope you lose custody and get two weekends a month. Then you'll know the deal.